Talk:Jats

"Iranian" origin of Jats + "Zutt" in modern Iraq

I don't know which troll is editing this, but NO, Jats are NOT an "Iranian tribe".

Furthermore, there is practically nothing left of the Zutt people, those Indus pastoralists settled in 6th-11th century Iraq, so to imply that proper Jat clans live in modern Iraq is a lie! The most you can say is that there is still a district (Abu al-Khaseeb) named after them. But you should remember, as mentioned in the Zutt article itself, that Zutt was a generic exonym used by Arab chroniclers! Good luck trying to prove definitively that such-and-such Zutt is definitely a Jat. Heck, geneticists and historians argue that the Jats of Balochistan and Sindh aren't related to other Jats, so first focus on proving that!

Whoever is moderating this article, undo these edits and ban that troll. Forticus02 (talk) 21:05, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. The article of the subject is the modern caste/community of Pakistan and India who speak various Indo-Aryan languages. Edits like these are not relevant to the topic, at max can be historical, but again subject to WP:CONSENSUS here. Note that the article before these changes, by and large reflected the consensus version. Pinging @Sitush, NitinMlk, Ekdalian, Fowler&fowler, and Utcursch:. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 14:06, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

All sorts of origins have been posited, Southern Russian, among them. But they are herders from the southern regions of Sind, that after migration north to the Punjab became non-elite tillers. The cantankerous editors on that page, do not like the word "non-elite" (commonly also applied to other tiller "castes" such as the Kurmi), so they keep imagining grand scenarios. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 15:29, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Fylindfotberserk thanks for the ping. - NitinMlk (talk) 18:09, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

I completely agree with you, Fylindfotberserk. I have posted the notice related to South Asian social groups on the talk page of the concerned user! Thanks. Ekdalian (talk) 05:56, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Jats are Indic people, etymology of them is from the mahabharata era tribal coalition of the jartikas (जार्तिक) Cāṇakya (talk) 15:35, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

Forum-y stuff

== Sindhi Zutts are not the same as Punjabi Jatts = Theory Debunked They are the SAME Their is one big mistake with it. I am from sindh Karachi. Their are no Local sindhi Jatts all the Jatts in sindh are either from Pakistani Punjab Province or indian punjab that came here after partition. The Zutt which was mentioned by caliphate are a local Sindhi clan who still exists but are camel herders. I think their is a confusion here because of the same sound. Yaqub50 (talk) 13:07, 30 July 2024 (UTC) Zutt is an arabic / persian word for the ethnicity jatt 2001:8003:471E:D100:1928:6BEA:EB44:8DD3 (talk) 15:56, 26 August 2024 (UTC) "Zutt" is indeed the Arabic word for Jatt, but it's not accurate. It's like the word "Firanj/Farang" (Frank) being used to describe Crusaders, even though all Crusaders were obviously not Franks. Even on the Zutt page itself, it mentions how Arabs included groups like Andaghars, Sayabijas, Qufs, and Jadgals. It's a confederation at best. Otherwise, at least make a distinction between the high Iran_N Sindhi Jatts, and the high Steppe Jatts (of Punjab, Haryana, Rajasthan, Western Uttar-Pradesh). They are genetically and culturally distinct. KhandaEnjoyer03 (talk) 01:11, 31 August 2024 (UTC) Dude, Punjabi Jatts also have high Iran_N (IVC) DNA. In fact, L1a2 is a major Jat Y-Haplogroup, which is of Zagrosian origin. Are you going to write off half of the Jat population because they don't fit your autosomal Steppe conditions? If you do that, you'd be ignoring most of Muslim Jat history, and a solid chunk of Sikh Jat history. Why would you propose that? If your argument is that Sindhi Jats are distinct, then make that case without Steppe kanging. Forticus02 (talk) 21:18, 29 October 2024 (UTC) and those jatts forefathers which were/are , in indian / pakistani punjab who have came after pation , migrated from the broader balochistan and sindh region in the medeval to Punjab in an attempt to find sufficient agriculture fertility 2001:8003:471E:D100:1928:6BEA:EB44:8DD3 (talk) 16:01, 26 August 2024 (UTC) Wrong. Jatts do not originate from Sindh, contrary to what this article claims. If they did, then all Jatts would have the characteristically high Iran_N genetic component found in Sindhis (instead of the unusually high Steppe, especially among Haryanvis). There is also archeological evidence of Jatt figures like Shalinder. KhandaEnjoyer03 (talk) 01:13, 31 August 2024 (UTC) You are correct. Even if we ignore that Zutt was a generic term for Indus pastoralists, we cannot ignore that Sindhi Jatts (Sammats, Lohanas, Jamotes) and Punjabi Jatts are culturally and genetically distinct. KhandaEnjoyer03 (talk) 01:16, 31 August 2024 (UTC) i am not sure if you are saying im correct or wrong . 2001:8003:471E:D100:45D1:EAF:1913:2C3F (talk) 11:39, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 December 2024

Add the word "jutt" in first line as well because that's what pakistani jats call themselves and they make up around 40 - 50 % of the jat population. Sahyy771 (talk) 19:57, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Kline • talk • contribs 03:01, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 December 2024

there are so many mistakes in this article about my community and I am a jat and I want to correct it .Sachinchaudharyyy (talk) 09:54, 8 December 2024 (UTC) Sachinchaudharyyy (talk) 09:54, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 13:48, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 January 2025

Add Gujarati as a language as there are 1.5 to 2 million Anjana Jats in Gujarat 2601:84:8D00:FAD0:D514:87C1:60A3:A8BF (talk) 04:33, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Ultraodan (talk) 10:04, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

Reclassification and further lists

I see Jatts as more of a caste , how about you ? Here is another listing for jtts: https://jattimmortals.wordpress.com/ ਪਿੰਡ ਮੌੜੇ ਖੁਰਦ (talk) 18:45, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

Please note that these sites are considered as unreliable. You need to cite modern scholarly work by reliable authors; read WP:V! Ekdalian (talk) 07:43, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

A Tribe Farshwal (talk) 14:02, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 January 2025

"Chahal" is also a clan of Jats. It should be included in the list. 2400:ADC7:113B:3E00:ACF7:A6FA:932:9475 (talk) 15:49, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please provide reliable and verifiable source supporting your proposal; read WP:V.Ekdalian (talk) 16:29, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

Protection

Take down the protection Sikh historians (talk) 12:19, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

@Sikh historians This is the wrong place for unprotection requests. WP:RFUP explains what you need to do. Ultraodan (talk) 12:25, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

New version of page?

https://ur.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%D8%AC%D8%A7%D9%B9&direction=next&oldid=6062350

Where jatts came from

In the Ganges-Yamuna Doab and Rajputana, they are called Jats and in Punjab, they are famous. Thus, they are also known as Jet, Jat, Zat. From Punjab to the coast of Makran to the banks of the Ganges , Jats are in large numbers and they are the majority in Punjab. Although now they are Muslims and in North India they are more than other nations and in Rajputana half of the farmers will be Jats. Many of their tribes on the banks of the Indus River have converted to Islam. Indirectly, in the districts west of the Ravi in ​​Punjab, most of the Jats were Muslims. But in Central Punjab they are mostly Sikhs and in South Punjab they are mostly Hindus. James Todd says that Baloch is also of Jat origin. Baloch and a large tribe of them are originally Jats of Jatoi. Because according to Baloch traditions, Mir Jalal Khan's daughter is attributed to Jatan. Jatan is the root of Jat. Thus, apart from Jats and Jats, Jatak, Jadgal and other tribes are of Jat origin. Although they do not consider themselves Jats and call themselves Baloch. The majority of the Samat tribes of Sindh are of Jat descent.

Jatt Race

James Todd says that their origin is Uti or Joti and their original homeland was between the rivers Jehan and Saihan , from where they spread to the subcontinent. The Jats living in Central Asia are now Muslims. Timur Ling had accepted the allegiance of their great Khan Kokal Tash Timur. He was an idolater at that time and later Timur himself was elected their great Khan. Furthermore, he says that the Jats are descendants of Takshak, i.e. Nag Bansi and Chandra Bansi.

Li Ban says that this is the most ancient nation in the Punjab and Sindh. They have undergone little change due to rare foreign contact. However, their general structure is as follows. Tall, strong, intelligent, with a dark complexion, a large and high nose and sometimes a hooked nose, and their eyes are small and straight, their cheekbones are not very prominent, their hair is black and often fringed and sparsely haired, tall and handsome, their gait is straight and elegant. The Jats are tall, their body is slender and strong, and their complexion is dark. It can be assumed that the Jats are Aryans by race. Although some authors have described them as Scythian Aryans by origin. In the main branch of which, various tribes have been mixed.

Although General Kangam says that the Jats are Indo-Scythians and came after Alexander . But there is no doubt that the Taurans or Indo-Scythians did not mix with the Dravidians or with the Aryans. However, the effect of this mixture that has occurred is present in the Jats. For example, some of them are dark-skinned and some are of a fair complexion, like the Rajputs. A branch of the Kuru was known as the Jartika and settled in the Punjab . They were probably the ancestors of the Jats. James Todd says that according to the traditions of the Jats, they came from the west of the Indus River and settled in the Punjab in the fifth century AD . Although the Jats are included in the thirty-six Rajkali of the Rajputs, they are not called Rajputs and neither do the Rajputs marry the Jats. They are counted among the lower castes. A girl is taken from them but not given.

Theories of the Jatt

Le Ban says that the original inhabitants of the Punjab region are of Turanian origin. It appears that these Turanian Jats were the masters of the entire country at the time of the invasion of the Aryans and were easily subdued by them. The Aryan conquerors treated them well and included them in the middle caste of the Vish or trading caste. On the contrary, they made the original inhabitants of this country Shudras . It is as if the Aryans became the rulers of this country with the consent of the Jats. This mutual consent is found in the ceremony of enthronement. Because the king used to take the crown from the hands of the Jats.

Wemre says that the name Jit was given to the Mongols who lived on the border of Mongolia . Their descendants are the Buruts. In Central Asiathese Mongols are now called Chete Mughals (border Mughals). In Turkey, Jit is called Sarhad and Mongol is called Mughal.

BS Dahiya says that the word Jat itself is a symbol of bravery and progress. The Jats, experts in swordsmanship and ploughing, made a name for themselves with arrows and axes on the lands of Asia and Europe, from Mongolia in the east to China in the west to Spain and England in the west, from Scandinavia and Nodgrod in the north to Pakistan and India, Iran and Egypt in the south. In the Iranian subcontinent, they are called Jat or Jat, and in Turkey and Egypt, they are called Zaz or Jaz in Arab countries, Jatiya in the language of the Mongols, Got in Sweden and Denmark , and Goth or Got in Germany and other languages, and Yuchi (pronounced Guti) in Yeni. The Jini author Vardhaman mentions Shaka and Jart tribes. Chandraguma has written that the Jats defeated the Hun tribes. The rulers Yashodharman and Gupta were Jats and it was they who defeated the Huns . Although the Huns themselves were also Jats.This is where the Jatt name Hundal may come from with Dal meaning army so Hun Army.

The Shakas, Kushans, Huns, Kedari, Khyuni ​​(Cheoni) and Takhar (Takhar), who are considered separate races, are sometimes shown as neighbors of each other in the Central Asian plains. Although their race was Jat, their ruling families adopted their tribal names after establishing their rule. The Central Asian region is the original homeland of the Aryan peoples. That is why all the traditions of the subcontinent have a sacredness associated with it. From Vedic literature to all the writings, the land of the gods is in the north. Historians agree that the Indo-Iranian, Sakas and European Scythians were the same. According to the History of the World, Scythians are the name of those tribes of Central Asia and Northern Europe who were always at war with their neighboring races. Scythia is the name of an ancient region that stretched from the east of the Black Sea and the valley of the Jehon and Seyhon rivers (Amu and Syr rivers) to the Danube and Don rivers . Herodotus says that the Massagetae are descendants of the Scythian nation.

P. Sykes mentions a people called the Getae. They had conquered Sumer and Assyria etc. by 2600 BC. Chinese sources state that the history of the Wei tribes goes back to 2600 BC. The Wei of China, the Dahi of Iran, the Dai of Greece and the present-day Dahi Jats are the same. The K Jats of South Asia are the same people who appear in Iranian history as the Getae and the Yuchi (pronounced as Getae in Chinese) of the Chinese. Their original homeland was Central Asia from the borders of China to the Black Sea . Herodotus and other Greek historians call them Getae or Masagite. The latter name is a major element of these tribes.

Wilson says that the Rajput tribes , Rathore, Pawar and Gehlot etc. were already settled here. These four tribes are originally Jats who later came to be called Rajputs. Because they were the rulers at that time. On this basis the term Rajput or Rajputra i.e. the descendants of kings came into existence. Its origin is from the Pahlavi word Vaspohar (son of the king). Wilson considers them to be foreigners. Because these people along with the Sakas and other tribes had conquered the subcontinent.

Role of the Jatt

The Jats never accepted the superiority and supremacy of the Brahminical religion and this is the reason why they did not formally accept Hinduism . This was the background in which the Brahmins and other castes following them considered the Jats to be the lower class of Kshatriyas, or even Shudras. But the Jats never cared about it and in the book Hindu Tribes and Castes of the Subcontinent, the name of the Jats is definitely found in the ancient Chathis Rajkali, but nowhere are they shown as Rajputs . The basis of this last sentence is that the Rajputs are the Jats and Gujars who formally entered the Hindu religion . Those who refused to accept the conditions and conditions of the formally biased Brahminical system were not formally admitted to the Hindu religion and they are still the same Jats, Gujars and Ahirs. This is the reason why the castes and Rajputs have common tribal names. Thus, the Rajputs are the Jats and Gujars dyed in the Brahminical color. This is the reason why, long before the appearance of Rajputs, we find only Jats and Gujjars in the central subcontinent, Rajasthan, Gujarat, Sindh. If a Rajput marries a Jat woman, he will not become a Jat. But if he or his descendants adopt the practice of widow remarriage, he will become a Jat. This is the real point of the issue, that of a Rajput and a Jat, only the second marriage of a widow. Widow marriage has existed in all ages. But the Rajputs did not even listen to it under the wrong, immoral and unjust views of the Brahmins. The most important point of disagreement on widow marriage was the disagreement between the Jats and the Brahmins on the occasion of the sacrifice of Mount Abu. Those who accepted the conditions offered by the Brahmins were called Rajputs. On the contrary, those who insisted on marrying a widow were called Jats, having converted to Hinduism.

Sultan Mahmud Ghaznavi was greatly harassed during his attacks on India. So, he launched an attack specifically to eliminate them and had six hundred special boats prepared, each with three spears attached. He put these boats in the Indus River and placed twenty soldiers on each boat and ordered the rest of the army to walk on foot along the banks of the Indus River. When the Jats came to know about it, they sent their wives and children to an island and boarded four or eight thousand boats and attacked Mahmud Ghaznavi's army. Despite their large numbers, a large number of Jats were killed. Mahmud Ghaznavi reached the island and arrested the families of the Jats.

During the time when Aurangzeb was busy in the Deccan , the Jats, knowing the spoils, attacked the general population under the leadership of their chiefs. They even tried to break Akbar 's tomb. Aurangzeb appointed local Faujdars to suppress them. But when the Mughal Empire began to crumble after Aurangzeb, the Jats of Bharatpur and its surrounding areas, led by their chief Suraj Mal, spread terror in the area between Agra and Delhi . Angered by their oppression, Ahmad Shah Abdali pacified them. But he could not completely eliminate them. Later, Ranjit Singhsucceeded in establishing a state. This state was established for a short period.

The Sikhs who had become the rulers of Punjab by the end of the 18th century . The attacks of Nader Shah Afshar and Ahmad Shah Abdaligreatly helped in the establishment of their empire and due to these attacks the Mughal Empirebecame very weak and the Sikhs emerged with a force and they brought the decline of the Mughal Empire to its end. The majority of the Sikhs were Jats and the Jats were very involved. In the early 20th century, a movement against the British was ignited, the famous slogan of which was Jatt Turban Sinhal Jatt . The participants in this movement were also Sikhs. Its spirit was the uncle of the famous revolutionary Bhagat Singh

Characteristics of the jutt

The Jats are a breed of peasants and are foolish and simple-minded in their dealings. They care more about buffaloes and cows than their fellow men. Their profession is mostly farming. They are not only brave but also good soldiers. When they resisted Muhammad bin Qasim , Muhammad bin Qasim arrested a large number of them and sent them to Hajjaj bin Yusuf . Polygamy was a custom among the Hindu Jats. The Chach imposed restrictions on the Jats like the untouchables. Regarding this, Dr. Nabi Bakhsh Baloch says that the Jats were the ancient inhabitants of Sindh.The Chachnama states that the conditions that Chach imposed on the Jats of Lohana included that they would not carry any weapon except an artificial sword, would not wear expensive clothes or velvet, would ride horses without a saddle, would remain bareheaded and barefoot, would keep dogs with them when leaving the house, and would provide wood for the governor's kitchen, as well as perform leadership and espionage duties

Tribes of Jatts

• Abar = Elavat, Andar, Antal, Arya, Isakh, Atwal, Attri, Aulakh, Onakh, Ohlan, Ojhalan, Ojla, Atar, Ohlan, Odhran
• , Babbar, Bagdawat, Bajad, Bajwa, Bill, Balhan, Balhar, Ban, Benis/Vinis, Busi, Bath, Billari, Banhwal, Bhangal/Bhagu, Bhandar, Bhli, Bela, Basra, Bhidi, Bhuparai, Bhalar, Bhang, Bisla. , Berar, Budhwar, Bora, Basra, Bhambu
• , Pahalpa, Lawal, Pankhaal, Paya Sar, Panich, Pannu, Paneg, Parihar, Paruda, Phur, Pharwe, Phogat, Phalka, Peru, Potalia, Punia, Pingal, Pulkha, Prada
• , Putal/Putlia, Tanwar, Tor, Thand
• , Takhtahlan, Ting, Tik, Tatran, Tabuathia, Thakran, Twana, Tsartomar
• , Jakhd, Jaglin Jalota, Janjua, Jahl, Janwar, Jatasara, Jarana, Jhajharia, Joya, Jon/Hon, Jora, Jakhd
• , Chahal, Chhatta, Chohan/Chowhan, Chibak, Cheema, Chhild, Chhakara, Chonkhar, Chhina, Chimni, Chadhar,
• , dabas /dawas, dagar/dagar, dhama, dha/dahaya, dalal, dhail/vil, dalta, dangi, darad, diswalas, deol, dhami/dhama, dhaliwal, dhaka, dhankhad, dhanch, dhanda, dhanuya, dharan, dhlon , Dhandsa, Dhandwal, Dhonchak, Dhal, Duhan, Dahiya
• , Rai, Rana, Ranjha, Rathi, Rathole, Rathore, Randhawa, Rapadiya, Rawat, Redhu, Rayar, Raj, Rohil/Rohilla, Rastre
• , Sanula, Sahota, Sahrut, Silar, Silkan, Samal, Samra, Sahanpal, Sanga, Sangda, Sangwan, Sanswar, Sindhu, Supra, Saran, Saruha/Srohi, Sarath, Sasisekhun, Sivch, Sivkand, Sevran, Shahi, Sher, Gul Swayasangrut, Sidhu, Kawar, Sohal, Solgi, Solangi, Suhak, Sial,
• , Khangas, Qadian, Kajala, Kak, Kakran / Kakar, Kathia, Kalan, Kahlon, Kalkal, Kang

Rai, Kharl, Katari, Kashwan, Khar, Kher, Kharp/Kharb, Khatri, Khatkal, Khokhar, Clear, Kohad, Kalar, Kondu, Kantal, Kataria/Kattar

• , Galan, Gathwaal, Goraya, Gazwa, Ghuman, Gor/Goriya, Grewal, Galia, Gohil, Gamar

,Girlat, Gondal, Gusar, Gopi Rai, Gaklin, Gul/Gilani, Gazwa, Guha

• , Hala, Hans, Deer, Hada, Hengga
• , Lali, Lakhanpal, Lamba, Lather, Lithwal, Lochab, Lohan, Loharia, Langriyal
• , Mosquito/Mathur, Madarna, Madhan, Mahal, Malik, Mal, Malhi, Manka/Man, Mangat, Mand/Mund, Temple, Maula, Mohila, Minhas, Mardha, Mutha, Mokhar, Peacock, Mangat, Mudra, Madarna
• , Napal, Naloh, Nandal, Nain, Nepal, Narwal, Nohar, Nasir, Nahar, Najjar, Nonya/Nun
• , Work, Vraich, Wit Dhan, Wala

references

• Jat - Islamic Education
• Jamestown - History of Rajasthan Volume I
• BS Dahiya - Jat
• Ijazul Haq Quddusi - History of Sindh
• Syed Sibtul Hassan Saghim, Journey of Sikh Spirits, Story of Sikh Hearts. National Digest
• Ahmed Yar Khan, the secret of the night
• Dr. Nabi Bakhsh Baloch, Taqlimat Chachnama
• Le Ban, Tamzin Hind
• Ikram Ali Malik - History of Punjab
• Balochistan Gazette
• Weimar History of Bukhara
• Hamidullah Kofi, Chachnama
• Castes of Punjab

this was taken from the Pakistani version of Wikipedia as they will have a better on-site and sources of who the jutts were with them having a large Jatt population

https://ur.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%D8%AC%D8%A7%D9%B9&direction=next&oldid=6062350 Sikh historians (talk) 12:27, 22 January 2025 (UTC)